From kenh@microsoft.com Tue Jun 16 14:03:29 1998 Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by lennon.cc.gatech.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA23703 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wheaten.hitl.washington.edu (q+qywRtVWLGQ7EnGKZdRmtm01nTmroP/@[128.95.73.60]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA23045 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-imc-05.mail5-b.microsoft.com (mail5-b.microsoft.com [131.107.3.121]) by wheaten.hitl.washington.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14490 for <3d-ui@hitl.washington.edu>; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by INET-IMC-05 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2328.0) id ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:02:47 -0700 Message-ID: <5F68209F7E4BD111A5F500805FFE35B9057977D2@red-msg-54.dns.microsoft.com> From: Ken Hinckley To: Jeff Pierce , 3D UI list <3d-ui@hitl.washington.edu> Subject: RE: input devices Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:02:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2328.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Status: RO I think the other point that Chris made, that the hand-held devices allow greater precision of manipulation, is the more important issue. Even if you actually strap the tracker to your finger, gloves provide only very coarse manipulation compared to an object you can tumble in your fingers. The other key issue, which I don't think anyone mentioned yet, is that with a glove you absolutely need a clutching mechanism if you want to orient objects in any direction. With a hand-held tracker or prop, then a clutch isn't necessary (but may be desirable depending on the precise task constraints) -- so as a designer you have another option that I feel you don't have with gloves. Having said that, there probably are some applications in head-mounted VR that are well suited for gloves (like head-crusher, or demos that only need imprecise placement of objects). Shumin Zhai also did a nice study that demonstrates these issues quite nicely: Zhai, S., Milgram, P., and Buxton, W. 1996. The Effects of Using Fine Muscle Groups in Multiple Degree-of-Freedom Input. Proceedings of CHI'96: ACM Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, Apr. 13-18). ACM, New York, 308-315. Ken Ken Hinckley Microsoft Research One Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 (425) 703-9065 kenh@microsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Pierce [mailto:t-jeffp@microsoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 9:41 AM To: 3D UI list Subject: RE: input devices > -----Original Message----- > From: Ivan Poupyrev [mailto:poup@mic.atr.co.jp] > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 10:55 PM > To: 3D UI list > Subject: Re: input devices > > > One of the problems with gloves is ergonomics: you have to put them > on which can be a hassle if you are also doing something else. Simple > 6DOF sensor with a button, like the one which Chris described or the > ball shaped sensor with one button which Polhemus makes, seems to me > the best 6DOF input device for desktop virtual reality since you can > repeatedly pick it up from your desk, do whatever you want to do and > then put it away. I would definitely get one for my PC if it cost > less then $200. I don't know about this. Which is more of a hassle, putting on gloves once and then working for awhile or continually picking up and putting down a button? I've done both when developing worlds using Alice. I'll typically slip the head mount on and interact for awhile, then slide it up so I can see the screen and make a few changes, then slip it down and interact some more. I've found I much prefer doing this with pinch gloves on (I can just type while wearing the gloves) rather than keep putting down and picking up a physical device (such as the clipboard for the WIM). I think the ergonomics cost here depends on how long you're going to be interacting. If you're going to spend 2 minutes interacting in VR and then you're going to walk away, a physical device probably wins hands down because there's no donning/doffing gesture. But over the long haul (20-30 minutes of stepping in and out) I think gloves might have the advantage. > > Doug wrote: > > > > How do we choose devices based on task? Will the most profitable > > interaction techniques use very domain specific input devices or > > general ones? > > I would vote for trying to squeeze as much as we can from existing > devices by developing good interaction techniques. Besides, it > seems that evolution of general input devices is far from over. > We have had the same mouse for years, the number of buttons was the > only variable. But recently we have got several new breeds of mice: > Microsoft wheel mouse, IBM "force stick" mouse, new Logitech mouse. > The reason for their developing was the need to support extensive > browsing of the documents. I would guess that when we need extensive > browsing of 3D worlds then new devices will be introduced or current > will be enhanced. Still, I am leaning toward extension of the existing > devices, simply because of the user base. If we could effectively > incorporate 6DOF capabilities into keyboard or mouse it would be the > best. On the last CHI there were few papers that pushed the limit > of what can be done with mouse. > > Any comments? I think choice of input device depends on the price/performance tradeoff you're willing to make. If you want the absolute best performance on the task and are willing to spare no expense, then a custom input device that's specific to that exact task will probably be your best bet. But the odds of it working well for other tasks is fairly small. On the other side, if you want to lower the costs of your system by using as general an input device as possible (or relying on what people already have), then people aren't going to be as efficient/effective. Consider two handed input on the desktop. We've all seen the papers that show that if you give people 2-handed input on the desktop then they're more efficient for a certain class of tasks. And how many systems have you seen that have (or allow) 2 input devices (2 mice, mouse and touchpad, etc)? Jeff