From: owner-3dui@hitl.washington.edu on behalf of kiyo2@rb3.so-net.ne.jp Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 3:03 PM To: 3d-ui@hitl.washington.edu Subject: Re: text/number input in VEs Hi, I am sorry to break in, but how about using a small split keyboard and tieing them up to fore arms by using splints or something ? If they are small and light enough to wear and tied up in a slanted angle so that hands won't touch them in normal motion and still easy to touch when needed, I think it works... I also think many have already tried the idea, but this comes inbetween your two approaches...? --Kiyoshi Kiyokawa > Doug, > > That mail was definitely not as well thought out as it should have been. Maybe > I can clarify. > > First, I completely agree that it's a problem to require that people jump in and > out of their VE to do "real work" (or just rote tasks, really). I also agree > that adding a keyboard to the mix when you may already be needing gloves or a > wand is not a good idea. It's a really bad idea if it interferes with those > devices. Finally, "best tool for the job" is indeed a poor choice of words - > most familiar tool for the job is really what I meant. > > My overall intention was to question why the keyboard is being totally > overlooked in the discussion, so let me speak to that. > > Maybe I'm guilty of CAVE snobbery here. Are most people on this list working > with HMDs? If I'm in a CAVE, or better yet a telecubicle, then I should have > the option of typing into a keyboard that sits on a desk - even while wearing a > head tracker, and maybe even while wearing gloves (maybe I just turn off the > glove input while typing). > > If you will permit me to ignore the darkness problem for a moment...I'm still > not convinced that there will be unsurmountable issues with training transfer or > miniaturization. Millions of people are typing into miniature QWERTYs everyday > with Blackberry and the like. Even worse, so many kids in Norway are typing > with their alpha/numeric phones that physical therapists have identified a new > type of repetitive stress syndrome related to it! It seems clear to me that > people know how to type even if the keyboard is not a certain size and shape or > sitting on a table. In any case, there is certainly more prior knowledge to > work with than requiring the user to learn a new alphabet (Palm grafitti is a > new alphabet). > > I should check out the links you provided for the virtual pinch keyboard before > I spout off too much more. It seems you are trying to leverage keyboard > knowledge somehow, but I don't know how exactly. > > KMC > > Doug Bowman wrote: > > > Kevin, > > > > First, good to hear from you. > > > > Second, I couldn't disagree more! :-) > > > > In immersive VEs, sitting down to type is most often > > not an option. It forces you to remove equipment you're > > wearing or carrying, to break your sense of presence, > > and most importantly, to stop the flow of action that's > > moving towards accomplishing some goal via the interface. > > I don't think we should think of VEs as simply the place > > to look at cool 3D images, then go back to "real computers" > > to do "real work". In fact, that's the whole thrust of my > > research - doing real work *inside* immersive VEs. > > > > I also disagree with your statement that the "keyboard is > > the best tool for the job". It's the tool that most people > > are familiar with, which is a big plus. That's why we used > > it as the model for the pinch keyboard. However, people are > > familiar with using QWERTY when they are seated, when the > > keyboard is a certain size and shape, and when it's supported > > by a table, among other things. Strapping a keyboard to your > > body is not going to allow much transfer of training. Miniaturizing > > the QWERTY keyboard and typing with one or two fingers is also > > not the answer - remember the early PDAs with miniature QWERTY > > keyboards? Impossible to touch type on - that's why handwritten > > input is so much more popular now. Add to that an HMD (or even > > dark conditions in a CAVE) not allowing you to see the device, > > and I say you wouldn't be able to type at all. > > > > What do others say? Am I way off base here? > > > > --Doug > > -- > > Doug A. Bowman, Ph.D. (540) 231-2058 > > Assistant Professor (540) 231-6075 (fax) > > Computer Science bowman@vt.edu > > Virginia Tech www.cs.vt.edu/~bowman/ ---- Kiyoshi KIYOKAWA Human Interface Technology Laboratory, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 // Emergency Communications Group, CRL // 4-2-1 Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo, 184-8795, Japan